Attention Scythes! A proposed solution for the completion bugs

#1

Hi Scythes!

At HQ we have been aware for a long time of some problems with the Scythe Complete buttons’ functionality, and it seems like lately there has also been a new name display error in the Toolbox, plus there have been a lot of newer Scythes confused by all of this. After some discussion here, we think we have finally worked out a way to address Scythe Complete’s little “idiosyncrasies,” and we’d like to propose the following:

  • Adjust the “Uncomplete” button so that it only removes your vote (to be used if you hit “Complete” by mistake and want to undo it)
  • Give Scythes the admins’ “Nuke” button so that you can remove all votes, not just one (to be used if you find completed cubes with less than weight 3)

At this point, with Scythe reaps serving a “Nuke” function for weight 3+ cubes that have problems, and with 1 vote locking a cube from play, we cannot really think of a reason to only remove 1 vote from a cube that needs to be uncompleted, except if it is your own mistaken vote. If we could try out the above proposal, we believe it would both allow us to iron out the bugs with the original system and also have a much intuitive Scythe Complete framework overall.

Please let us know whether this would feel as logical for you as it does for us! And please bear in mind that if there are any concerns about people abusing the “Nuke” button, we would already be logging who uses it, so that should be okay.

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#2

sounds good to me :slight_smile:

#3

What does the Nuke Button look like?

#4

It hasn’t been rolled out yet for Scythes, and you wouldn’t be able to see it as a Scout. But if/when we made this change, here is what Scythes would see in their Toolboxes as a result: Capture

#5

Cool. I guess I’ll start building blast shelters.

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#6

It’s just a bit precarious that you can nuke children and parents.
In fact i see not many situations one needs to nuke something, only when a cube should extend, and it doesn’t because has one complete vote?
I never till now was bothered about sc-d cubes, and i do not like that fellow scythes can nuke whole branches
Perhaps i do not understand all quite well?

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#7

We could think about restricting nuke for parents/children to admins only, yes. You are right that there’s less reason for Scythes to have that.

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#8

ok, thanks :slight_smile:

#9

Could you also make the Mesh button available for Scythes?
There used to be many situations, where that button would be handy for us. Now meshing and remeshing seems to work better, but there are still situations, especially, when removing large MSTY mergers in zfish, where remesh is useful. And in the EW cells manual remeshing is also useful from time to time. We can, of course, reap and rereap a cube, but with the Mesh button it works much faster.
It also helps with the old cells, where there’s an unobvious duplicate to solve.

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#10

Hi KK. Just to keep this post on topic, let’s drop that request on the feature suggestion sheet or in a different forum post, all right? :slight_smile: Thanks for the idea, though.

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#11

Sure, just added here, because you’re going to modify the Inspector Panel :slight_smile:
To back on topic, I definitely like the way, the uncomplete button will probably work. It was a little bit problematic, when we accidentally uncompleted a cube instead of completing it and took off someone else’s vote.
Also nuking all votes sounds very good, because why removing only one vote, when something is wrong with a cube.
EDIT: added the suggestion to the feature suggestion sheet.

#12

I think that this way of doing it is good. I mean the one you proposed. Even with Nuke’em all. We have a kind of one-cube-nuke already with reaping tools if there are serious problems.

Why I think nuke button is good? (mainly @susi) mainly cause it is ok to put work in doubt when the aim is to get cell closest to ideal state, so I see no reason why one should not nuke my whole work if it was wrong… it is just the way science works. But I’m new to the eyewire and maybe the nuke is 99.99 redundant for scythes. Then it would be ok to just communicate with admins in those 0.01% of cases. I don’t mind any of these solutions. The question is which one is more practical.

What I would like in terms of C buttons is possibility to mark some cubes and then C the marked ones :d or do other things for such a chosen group. Also marking cubes to some sort of quickbox. The best would be with option to highlight them if hover mouse over. And pls… some personal notepad build in… come on i dont want to search some cube numbers or notes on paper on my desk… while i got tons of my personal work here too :stuck_out_tongue: ye… sry for offtop ^_^;;

#13

Little off topic with that C button and marking cubes, but I did exactly that in one of my scripts.
You can read about it here: EyeWire Stats - another TamperMonkey script
It doesn’t allow you to do anything else than SCing the selected cubes, but it’s something.

1 Like
#14

My conclusion - just prevent SCing in wt <3 cubes. If it’s truly necessary, there should be an ‘exception’ button that lets someone make that happen, with a ‘completing entry log’ to explain why. Then there could be nuking for the exception buttons, so people don’t nuke legitimate completes. Yes, uncompletes should always be for one’s own uncomplete, not anyone else’s.

My brain’s convoluted logic path that I used to reach the conclusion (can be skipped):

  1. how come scythes can click ‘complete’ on cubes with wt <3 if they’re not supposed to? Shouldn’t scythes not have that capability, or be able to in emergencies - like an emergency button?
  2. shouldn’t we have both an uncomplete button for removing only one’s vote and also a nuke button? As a ‘nuke’ button would be useless if there’s only one vote that’s one’s own on it. Does it pop up only when there’s other votes?
  3. Other people’s completes get wiped out when a reap of >3% of changes occurs, which is kind of the same function as a nuke. In that case, one doesn’t really need a nuke, but just to do that (unless they can’t find an error, in which is a nuke really necessary?)
#15

@Iniquity

A bit late, but…

#16

@orch
Give me an example, where it is necessary to nuke complete branches. I’ve never seen whole branches sc-d with weights <3 .

If one sc-s a branch, there might be an error in some cubes you have sc-d. If the error was small, your sc stays in the current system, and that’s ok, since you spent time and error only small (dust not as relevant for science). If error was big, a second scythe can reap to correct, and you will loose your sc, that’s also ok. In both cases you come to good result as seen from science-view. And I see no reason to nuke the whole branch you sc-d, most other cubes being correct. Even if you sc-d on a merger-branch, your (sc-s were not for nothing, they stay in the cell that branch later belongs (I think so - @admins ?).

Again, I just do not see any reason to nuke whole branches by scythes.

#17

I agree with @susi. Nuking single cubes - ok, nuking whole branches - too much risk to accidentally nuke even a whole good cell and I also didn’t see any situations, where a whole branch needs nuking. And even if that would happen, we can still nuke it cube by cube, if necessary.
Also, @hawaiisunfun ad. 2
I wouldn’t hide the nuke button, only make it disabled, if there’s nothing to be nuked. Otherwise it would be confusing, if number of buttons in the Inspector Panel would be changing from cube to cube.

1 Like
#18

@susi
Please read carefully. I said that practical aspects should decide. Cause in theory possibility of nuke is just as legitimate as it can be. No doubt. But as I said earlier: if it is redundant from practical point of view then it’s ok to not implement it. That’s all I said. And for sure I’ve never said that it is good to nuke whole branch when only few cubes are slightly wrong… come on!

ps. if the sc stays in the cubes even when they are not in the cell they were sc… it seems just wrong to me… sc means “the cube is good where it is, and fits there perfectly” and it is not after moving to other cell. ofc it can remember being sc (so others can work with them in a quicker manner) but imo it should get 2 new votes in its new cell.

#19

this is my new favorite image now XD

1 Like
#20

I like the proposed changes, I think it will save a lot of headaches, and will avoid players being put into “complete purgatory” as well as reduce the amount we are having to bug the admins to nuke cubes. I do agree with @susi, I think that being able to nuke whole branches or all the parents is a concerning thing. I’ve accidentally completed kids and parents before and i’d feel awful if i accidentally undid everyone else’s work. I don’t see a reason for a scythe to have the ability to nuke anything other than one cube at a time.

Will the nuke also remove the reaps on that cube (in the toolbox only) or will it only affect complete votes?